…a few search terms from the past couple of days need addressed.
Is it ok to hit a transman? No. It’s not ok to hit ANYONE. Stop being an asshole. Unless he’s being an asshole and hitting/trying to hit you. In which case I’m all for self defence.
Where can a gay FtM get laid? Depends on the area, mate. Some guys can go into bath houses with no problems, other guys live in areas where being trans is like the kiss of death. If there are other gay trans guys in the area ask them. If there aren’t…test places out.
How do I come out as a girlfag? I have no fucking clue what this even means so I’m guessing I can’t help you much. Basically if it has “girl” in the name, you’re probably not going to find it here.
Can a FtM really fuck a woman? How the hell would I know? I’m guessing yes, but that’s just because people keep telling me they can. Go ask an FtM who fucks women.
Do gay trans men hate women? No. Not any of the guys I know, anyway. We just aren’t women and don’t want to sleep with women. Like any other guy, we do have the potential to be misogynistic. I’m sure some guys are, I just haven’t met any of them. Oddly enough, I’ve met straight trans guys who are. Not sure why anyone dates them.
Are transmen more men than biomen? No. We’re just as much of men as any other guy. Some of us are still more boys than men, just like any other young guy. We’re not magically special just because we came out. (And a lot of people don’t like ‘bioman’ so you may want to switch to ‘cisman’ to make your life easier.)
I love your responses… lol.
Lol, there were just a couple where I’m going “…How the hell did you get here from *that*?”
totally. i’ve never heard of a girlfag… all I could think was “isn’t that just a straight girl?” lulz.
Q: How do I come out as a girlfag?
A: I think I can enlighten you guys about that- girlfags are female born persons who are mostly sexually attracted to gay men. They fantasize about having sex *as* a gay man and so on. Many identify at least partially as a gay man in a woman’s body. There is a grey overlapping area with gay ftm, I know some girlfags who later transitioned. (It’s about like with transvestites and transsexuals)
There is a large girlfag group at Yahoo groups (pretty quiet nowadays) and a girlfag lifejournal group (active but small).
You can meet a lot of girlfags in slash fiction and yaoi groups.
Coming out as a girlfags isn’t easy, because most people don’t know what a girlfag is, or don’t take it seriously (it is serious though, it’s a real sexual orientation that can cause people about as much trouble as being gay or trans).
The girlfags I know start by meeting other girlfags to get more self confindent. They also go to Gay Pride, to gay clubs and so on. They make friends with gay men and especially bi men. Some cruise with a male persona in gay online groups. I know some who are in relationships with bi guys and it works pretty well for both, the guys are happy that the girlfag encourages them to date guys too.
Some come out to their friends which isn’t easy because there is very little information about that subject. The book Pomosexuals has two chapters about girlfags.
Wow. I had NO idea.
I figured it was something like that, but didn’t have time to Google. I’m honestly not sure how I feel about the idea. On the one hand, I get it because had I heard of girlfag before trans I probably would’ve identified as one.
On the other…I have issues with the idea of women cruising for gay men with a male persona. If you don’t identify as male that is lying to someone in order to get them in bed with you and I’m not ok with that.
I’m also not sure how it’s possible to ONLY be attracted to gay men unless it’s not the gay part that attracts you, but the effeminance. I know more than a few gay men who would never ping anyone’s gaydar, would girlfags be attracted to them? What about my straight guy friend who everyone thinks is gay? Or the friend of a friend who ended up with a man, but is attracted to women 99.99% of the time? It’s like how I have issues with people who are attracted to women and transmen, we’re such a diverse group that it’s virtually impossible to be sure that the guy you like is actually trans (or gay, as the case may be) until after you’re already interested.
Now, I get having a history of only being attracted to gay men. I like effeminate guys in general, usually this means the guys I’m interested in are REALLY REALLY gay. The only exception has been the Broadway loving, drag wearing, walking swish stick straight guy friend I mentioned before. If it weren’t for the fact that he has two moms and is the most gay friendly person I know I’d think he’s still closeted. Obviously even being attracted to guys who fit gay stereotypes isn’t even a guarantee you’ll only ever like gay men.
I used to identify as girlfag before I identify as gay FtM.
Actually it is possible to be exclusively attracted to gay men. For me, straight men seem like another species, thus making it impossible for me to desire them. Here’s my experience: There was a really cute guy. At first, I liked him but wasn’t attracted to him romantically or sexually. It was not until I learnt he was gay that I fell head over heels for him.
I don’t know what’s the mechanism behind this but when I watch or read about gay romance, I have this vicarious feeling of the affection and bond between them. It strikes a chord deep in my heart and I find the characters relatable and lovable. In contrast, I find straight romance unintelligible and not appealing at all. Heterosexual attraction makes no sense to me. I consequently reach the conclusion that heterosexuals are innately differently from me and thus we are not of the same species. Yeah, I tend to depersonalize them. I guess that’s why I can never be attracted to straight men.
In a trans-but-don’t-realise context I kind of get this. This part:
in particular makes sense to me because I feel largely the same way. Now, I also socially transitioned as a child so everyone just assumed I was gay until I got older/moved and had to live as a girl. Then I was every gay guy’s “exception”. So I never really needed to know about girlfags, I was already not-a-girl. Not really a boy either, but definitely not a girl.
It’s out of women-who-identify-as-women that I get a bit iffy. Not being attracted to someone until you find out their sexuality is tricky enough when you’re pre-trans and trying to sort out your gender and sexuality, but it can mostly be excused (I see it as the gay version of straight transguys identifying as lesbians first). Out of straight women though…it heads into fetish territory and that makes me uncomfortable.
Ok, now I’m a bit interested. They are women who *somewhat* identify as fags in that they find gay sex hot, but they don’t identify as men? Is this similar to the concept of a male lesbian?
I’d say, just like there are many different ftm and many different gay men 😉 there are many different girlfags out there.
Like you, Not Aiden, I have a mild problem with cruising with a male identity when you don’t have one. But only a mild one- I have met several gay ftm who have started out that way- for example as teens they found that they were somehow attracted to gay male content, they google it and end up on gay male boards. They cruise there just for curiosity and suddenly realize that they want to be part of the whole thing etc. This happens when people don’t have access to real life gay guys.
Also it’s not the same as women who try to turn gay men straight. They want them to be stay gay, and often feel tremendous guilt, fear or conflict about approaching gay men. It’s not just a case of voyeurism.
I find it hard to draw a line because some people just aren’t certain if they have a male or female identity, they need to experiment to find out what they want to do with their feelings. Others are married with small kids when they realize that they tick like gay men. As I said, there is no clear line between transvestites and transsexuals, just as there isn’t a clear line between bisexuals and homosexuals. It’s all more like a continuum.
I agree that many are probably attracted to effeminate men. Also to the idea of sexually passive men, and to the idea of themselves as gay men in a sexual/erotic/romantic context. Some are sexually passive though. I sometimes think they are part time transsexuals because when asked they almost all have fantasies about having a male body during sex (but not neccessarily in everyday life).
Kian- Yep, that is pretty much the same as a lesbian man, the 1990s term is guydyke.
I’ve been thinking this over for a while and I seem to have come to the conclusion that I can’t draw a line either. I feel like on some level it’s wrong because lord knows a straight man trying to date a lesbian wouldn’t be accepted, but at the same time…I could’ve been considered a girlfag in my teen years. I only dated gay guys, they all thought of me as their one exception so it worked. I also had that whole second life where all my old friends thought I was a guy before I even knew the word “transsexual”, let alone that it meant more than the prostitutes on Sunset Blvd.
On the other hand…I instinctively dislike the double standard. Any man who tries to date a lesbian is automatically considered an asshole who just wants to fulfil his threesome fantasy, it’s simply not accepted. There was a case in the US a while back where a group of lesbians brutally attacked (and possibly murdered, I don’t fully remember) a straight man because he made a pass at one of them.
I also have spent far too much time in fandom with teenage girls who fetishize gay men much in the same way that teenage boys fetishize lesbians. It doesn’t quite sit right with me. Thing is, I also don’t think it’s possible to draw a clear line between what I think is ok and what I don’t. It’s a complicated set of issues.
lol, it’s like trying to draw a line between bi, gay and straight. In theory it all sounds very well but in practise?
I know that double standard problem– but I see it slightly different because I have been witness to what was done to transwomen by lesbians during the dark “transsexual empire” years. I can’t see lesbian/ciswomen as the eternal victims anymore. And not all guys who are into dykes are drooling perverts. There are some really sweet guydykes out there who just have a thing for butches and/or feel like women in erotic situations.
Here’s an attempt at definition for you:
There are lots of straight people, esp women, who fantasize about going gay or lesbian for a day. These so called bi-curious people are a nuisance for LG communities. But there are genuine bisexuals who often get shit because people think they are only fooling around. They get pressured to “decide”.
With girlfags and guydykes it’s the same- they have a bad name because of the straight girlongirl/boyonboy sex lovers and voyeurs. But genuine girlfags and guydykes usually don’t go stalking gay people. They’re often so ashamed or frightened that they rather go into hiding and only fantasize. Some (mostly those who are bisexual) come in contact with real life gay people and often become real responsible members of the communities.
There’s nothing wrong with fetishizing other sexual orientations- many gay guys watch straight porn, straight women *love* dyke porn, dykes watch gay male porn and so on–
the problem arises when you behave irresponsibly and with a sense of entitlement.
I don’t think it really matters, whatever turns you on,go with it, fuck people ya know? Everyone needs an orgasm once in a while.